A Brave World of Risk-Taking and Living a Life of Purpose

00:00 160f477a-d35a-4072-9c5b-76ce4ca62367 Does it feel different to be up there without a rope? 76ff5caf-1e2d-4393-9887-05921a2813a6 It's obviously like a much higher consequence. 986c7594-2c4e-4fba-8059-6d168e653968 People who know a little bit about climbing. They're like, oh, he's totally safe. 629174c0-a17e-4ae7-a64e-b71fb99c2bb2 And then people who really know exactly what he's doing are freaked out. 02783a4c-5edf-46f8-9954-3ea05bbf19ed I've thought about all camp, like for years, and every year I'm like, 600163c8-cc81-46df-8429-1b7e90ed2661 That's really scary. I'll never be content unless I at least put in the effort. b565369b-d633-40d4-a1cf-720a68ddec64

00:38 El Cap is the most impressive wall on earth. e391d7b5-3e47-44d5-9cc9-4596727f99b6 It's 3200ft of sheer granite. It's the center of the rock climbing universe. ab7f126f-1695-4936-a38f-f30a06e560a5 I was going to get interview questions about it all the time. dd32e8bd-9872-4aba-897a-50c18f178e64 Oh, would you like to do that? You're like, Yes, for sure. b662c30a-3232-4f00-b261-32caea8ee70b See your girlfriend now I heard was awesome. dbe666e7-c510-45d6-9b89-6536f7df3da0 Pretty much makes life better in every way. caf4d1d1-21c6-4a37-a5f3-4f741dd8c37d It's really hard for me to grasp why he wants this. fbdafd17-ea46-48a9-a547-03fa7367bcc5 But if he doesn't do this stuff, he'd regret it. c4ae4e2e-4e1b-4f9b-9891-b7e9e2090cc8

01:10 Everybody who has made free soloing, a big part of their life is dead now. 02f2e525-be32-4526-9b61-a4178d5cf18e I haven't been injured in like seven years. 6f1d1199-326f-4dbd-a00b-e1e45f0efb97 I suddenly start getting injured all the time. a4acd7af-5249-49e3-b9e6-0879df26b2c5 What if something happens? What if I don't see him again? 8f8c675c-7143-448e-aec9-1d5d701028df I could just walk away. But it's like I don't want to. c9f6d05c-9841-42fa-bc73-2b205b2a5cde I've always been conflicted about shooting a film about free soloing just because it's b0e83a68-99d8-4430-ba31-23f4094dd067 so dangerous. It's hard to not imagine your friend falling through add9dfba-d3fd-415c-b55a-e0e36789b7f2 the frame to his death. 5c7762db-88bf-4823-b3de-600b44b7770a

01:40 I think when he's free choice, when he feels most alive, most everything. 560893c6-919a-46fa-8953-6e3c310567d4 How can you even think about taking it away from somebody? bed795d6-9a86-4ec4-8650-85af18b9ef9a No mistakes tomorrow. e73d4fa2-f537-4476-81b8-49a91f6115e1 Starting to get kind of safe. c08169bc-c9de-4016-a410-4725457cc1ff If you're pushing the edge eventually. 4dad4b6d-b289-4e18-93ad-fea0093832a9 I can't believe you guys, actually. fd65afa8-888f-4cda-b96e-e11f90dc59b6 Jenny, do you copy? Just started climbing. 48fe647e-e2ad-4534-ad72-01f08c37a020

02:27 Please welcome professional climber 5399d666-10c5-45cf-8162-f747b9277f81 and environmentalist Alex Honnold and professional climber skier, 61e23ca8-9fcb-462f-95dc-d2f38cc1a73a photographer and director Jimmy Chin, 90b4131d-d630-43f7-8e37-8895db8bcf1e and bestselling author and PBS series host Kelly Corrigan. b36d0310-6d0c-47e3-b439-6ecbf276b74f Pretty awesome. Hey, everybody. How are you? Good morning. 012be808-b33b-46a9-8047-7116b7d7d2eb

02:59 So we're in a room full of engineers, b5aa3714-f866-443c-8cc1-74ca03d0a594 and everything that you want to do in life depends in some way on design 3b4647a8-8d47-4c8e-864b-0ebd725911da and great technology and the evolution of both. 1c337ffc-06c3-4c3d-bcfb-3e850d5e8b1b Such that you can do ever weirder and harder things such that 11c7482e-b7df-4ed0-af49-4c181ee77a98 a helicopter can land in a different kind of place, 86a3d4b8-f0ad-470f-9adc-a67930d113b1 such that there's a lens on a camera that's lighter to carry f37f3012-e9fd-4936-bde0-30441e075acc so that you can get another day of filming in such that there's some new kind of shoe 0c3033b9-a310-4792-b7a4-2768d6f14744

03:31 that won't pierce through the bottom when you step on the wrong part of a wall. 2149c1aa-2c5c-4742-b409-0a85a50d021b And so my question is, is there a product or 47a51328-be86-425f-904e-25bfde2fc402 a piece of equipment that you just marvel at every time you use it? f4e60950-fb05-43ca-b3a0-54c9456503e8 Oh, Jimmy uses a lot more gear than me. e8de1ed9-2916-4ab3-b38c-c29d6b5b5663 So yeah. 61b1906b-6b25-4c90-a9c6-19d625779aab Oh, wow. I haven't been asked that question. You're winning. b025ec9a-eb2b-4d38-80c7-9835ebcbc964 Well, so when they prepped me for this, 08dd000d-352e-466c-9a14-190bee02cf4e they said that Jimmy and Alex challenge you to ask them questions that they have never be2807d5-b27d-48d3-9b09-d66ee3b0a10a

04:01 been asked before. So one point for me. be44a72c-adcd-499c-ada7-491fbb564ce9 We just know she's winning for sure. 6ab6f68a-0b8e-48df-8593-1855b5a15666 I mean, I think that's an obvious one for me would just be the, ef83932b-49d8-490f-84a1-cc661d88cee2 the new digital revolution in terms of cameras because I started out shooting on, 55b36325-e874-438e-a34e-a82848d9db3b you know, slide transparencies and yeah, that tells you how old I am. 9b0c9a52-8f2b-4db0-b927-41063a356663 But, you know, when the digital revolution happened in terms of being able to shoot bddb5fd5-74cb-4847-a1eb-f1242f3ab42a

04:33 on a DSLR like film on a DSLR, that was pretty extraordinary. e87c5418-7041-4280-a1bc-d4974362fafa And it was a huge shift for for for me and a lot of people who filmed in be569cdf-0120-4300-9335-fe43b55b2325 the outdoors or in the mountains where weight is an issue. aca1d4ef-9db7-48dd-8b23-1a1c767ec4a3 And for me, because I was a photographer and a filmmaker, 350651a7-c424-4527-8fda-9a8218058b44 the idea that I could shoot both on one camera using 2012e9a5-a306-4362-a5f2-3e22b3ff5d64 the same lenses just really opened the doors up for me to be able to shoot 04445f79-fe00-4a70-ae25-66f4dbdbfde0

05:05 a lot more in environments that usually limited, you know, 2faafbd2-2172-451e-9cdc-d53c2e5cff8d the amount of weight or equipment I could carry. f713b004-b8e4-4f0a-9d3e-3d8ccd7a1aef And and that's really the, the start of 5f26bfaf-15d0-4753-b2c7-8350c12f3025 the feature filmmaking career because we made the film Meru after 4983df77-180c-4867-8f79-57343eeb408d the kind of new DSLR came out so. ec8d5b00-cdd0-49e5-a654-45227dd5640e And you being able to shoot Meru is the way that most of us will ever experience Meru. 252bd38a-a2aa-4e15-a32a-da17a342b969

05:37 So it's really this consequential development that you're able to do, edc317b4-ae5b-4a2e-a787-70c1bb736479 what you're able to do such that we can go places that most of us will never go, 745566e1-e110-4c56-984a-128f0cd994ae and certainly do things that most of us will never do. 8e678fe8-4f0b-4fd4-83db-9deef0c57ece So cheers to the designers on that. f02bffa7-7022-4f03-b254-af3355f16099 Cheers to you. 910cb2be-02a4-466e-987b-8fc645bc1bcd What about you? What's your fate like? There must be something like. 3c7e8875-fe4a-47fb-b68f-c2d676d5e2d9 My husband's just a biker, and he has, like, little things that he just. 50397c70-3024-4d9f-bd46-8d6cc983743b Actually, it's not so much any specific piece of gear, 42faf070-47e6-426c-8d0c-8dcc02443f21 but I will say I've been climbing my whole life as well. 3bb434ea-68af-42de-b3af-48435e463c81 And basically all climbing gear is steadily getting slightly lighter, slightly better, 4c1425d8-0e64-4e2e-bf5e-bb24e1e4d41a

06:11 slightly smaller, and to the point that every, cf0c811d-9204-4dd8-a3fa-fea041655217 every maybe five years or so I hold my whole rack. 809195dd-dde4-4a60-b0b0-118e5978b513 You know, basically the assortment of gear that you use for a climb. 08d8e128-16ab-4c91-8862-2349c5901fc6 And I'm just like, it's so small now. 4f7f62f0-a276-4a6e-8863-70a59ce32e7f It's so light, you know, it's like a I don't know. 28aa78de-cd34-440b-91f5-9053b9b73ccc I mean, I noticed it from time to time. 2f38aeca-f5a5-4fe4-9707-d6de1e7a8b16 So I think in 2012, I first set the speed record on on actually, 31bec534-f110-4422-9e99-6b8b80b6ab1c which is showing that there is like a 3000 foot wall. 7716109a-e4b7-4f27-9197-3c146d0ae785 And then somebody broke that eventually and then I did it again with 8ec33204-e816-41a3-80a8-2d20a4c161d9 a different partner years later. 07e4ce03-68da-496b-91bc-3b343102bf27 And in the intervening time the ropes had gotten lighter, 5ee0ba91-49a9-4385-b096-72c92f65dbc6 the equipment had gotten smaller. 20ab9d04-0394-401a-9f56-4a68c4176013

06:42 Basically everything about it had changed just a little bit, a551325c-91bf-48ce-8fc5-10625f4758f3 but enough so that you're like, Oh, this actually does make it substantially easier. cd40ab42-a678-419f-ad23-24c4aeae7c8a And so, you know, basically every year you’re like, that’s just a little bit better. b1b396be-6055-4920-9cfb-e836eb2dcfac It's nice. 12d0379f-7bac-4892-bc4d-6e79c7a16207 And how is it getting a little bit safer? f9e0dcfe-1365-436f-bad2-0fd651cff325 Well, it depends how you use the gear. I mean, yeah, it could. It totally depends. 382e8d4e-6d54-442e-a9eb-2e0efe48d66e But the thing about pushing the the edges of a sport is that, yes, 8c3de87f-c1f9-4baa-89bc-3c536d025d48 you could use the lighter gear to carry more of the gear and thus be safer. 92b4349e-1947-4563-8bf6-5c9a9e2e6888 Or you could use the lighter gear to carry even less of the gear and go faster. 13ca2e26-80d3-40b8-880c-ae727d3048b4

07:14 And so it’s all trade offs. Yeah, but, but yeah, 8a63c43b-c45c-4911-9e66-205d9da88940 you certainly could use it to be to be safer. Yeah. 89961028-be4f-423e-a22f-347751afb87b But you don't always, you don't always use it that way. Uh. 62e576f2-edbf-41a4-aeee-a190b32773d4 My, my great interest in life is how people affect one another 475ac093-af60-42ac-bb6b-67dfe6bb3c24 and how those intersections make new, better things possible. 125db63a-3a21-4bd7-9d50-a33bee9e498d And I wondered if we could tell your love story c26a8474-3c12-4711-9f46-068dafbbac47 because your connection is very meaningful and it's making a lot of things possible. 27ef8ead-45c1-413f-b62c-53cd8acf7faf So tell me about meeting Jimmy for the first time. dfefa6d0-be31-4a6e-b433-51fe53f20cd9

07:46 Tell me, what about Jimmy makes him? 857d5c2f-8bb6-4227-8519-24936b0e6896 Oh, boy. ce84362b-5cdf-4ded-9043-cd93b2750afc Uh huh. 2ddb7e12-6546-47f2-9a9a-a4d824d31bff It's Valentine's Day here at PTA. fc480fdc-ae9d-48bf-b20d-3851c7b0f668 All right. These are these are questions we've never been asked. 303b9ce4-fc1f-4b3c-bbd3-cf35b7301d89 Actually, I'm very impressed. f2eb38aa-8bc6-4497-bf46-2e4aafac7f2f Yeah, two. 41c53616-72f9-45e2-9db1-eed72f63a082 Points. Yeah, Yeah, two points. I hope someone's keeping a little tally. I am. 2dae5e9a-73fe-40bd-83d9-388d63e90eb1 Audience Oh, yeah. Good. Good. Yeah. I don't know. 47321676-5e8e-4833-987e-350b8da24f9c It's hard to say, actually, because Jimmy was already a well established climbing hero. a93335ff-8195-4018-9733-c3a0a3aba555 Sort of photographer. Videographer, climbing icon. You know, even when I was young. bf79dc5c-2035-46ec-b27c-5f08da924922

08:16 Not to say that Jimmy's old or anything, but. But, wow. 54999aa4-ffbd-4859-8050-50b1d80de879 I've never heard him describe me that way. acbc723c-7343-4ea8-b159-14285ca3e3e5 Well, I mean, you know, but the film crew was actually so predating fb68cae9-14f5-4e29-8c43-be7ac46f27bf the feature film area, which I'm sure a lot of us have seen on streaming services 4c61622a-7dca-4f2b-9e38-80c3885a5983 and things before that there was there were several different cuts of the film crew 7d88066f-5877-4193-9eca-69eb90e3d893 because after their first failed expedition, b1eb12c0-c5c4-4b58-8d35-774273e72473 they made a little piece that was shown through the North face, be3c3410-aba7-474b-9e2e-1daded6edb69 one of our mutual sponsors. And so 2b4c6c1a-4e17-45d8-897a-ef3e203a71d5 I saw sort of every aspect of your every development in their quest to climb Meru. 37287056-4ae0-4c6b-9c2c-c6ae6b41ef6e

08:47 It's fitting that we're talking about Meru, and it's up on the screen again. 2bf9afff-569e-418d-807c-7556bca24182 This is just a random carousel of images that goes behind us, e40f72f9-a983-4d1a-8844-00511220e664 but it's perfectly timed to what we're talking about, just sheer sheer coincidence. 855f219c-4f8e-490b-8a3e-f5905788e1ac But so, you know, I was aware of Jimmy’s work.I respected Jimmy’s work. 35650045-eae4-44af-a818-1d2b30dca52f I kind of knew, you know, I mean, he's he's the Jimmy Chin, you know, 317cb51c-41cb-4aa1-b009-404820f7c3a7 he's like and actually, you were on a couple of the first expeditions that f07133f4-a19f-4ebd-aa1d-77d6889c47a6 I went on as a young North athlete. 025ddfa8-4b15-460d-9c86-e05caed805e7 You know, he was already well established, like the golden boy, you know, cee7baae-00f2-4394-b2a0-23726085ec38 shooting all the. e8601764-3f2a-41d0-a643-680461baa101 How much of this can you stand? 17dfd141-ac4d-4362-81cd-38c8a5ecdceb

09:17 No, I can keep you can listen to it. Yeah. He's he's kind of like it. de0099a9-9a52-4c05-a7f7-31f81a5ca441 I could spend a little more Alex has ever been. I'm serious. 55e22e09-be28-4ac6-ade3-5ab06d000367 This is like group therapy. dfb387d4-a504-4e3d-81e9-e667fc78a6e2 I mean, what year did you ski? Everest. Or did you with. With Kit. ca27c161-dbb7-4070-9d83-af46a5a704d0 161e555c-d140-4ca2-8071-a38e84e2789c Yeah. Okay. So that was basically the year before 2006 was the year that 2076b6ff-deff-4573-b705-fd9f06fb607c I started climbing full time, really. And then I sort of got sponsored in 2007. 38f4f5bd-980f-4bbd-922e-8b4732fad8b5 So basically from the very beginning of me being a professional climber, 6105df2b-b721-42e9-9fcf-deff79ce3855 Jimmy was already at the upper levels of what it meant in the in the space. 93a051a6-921d-4d00-8897-54be74996290

09:48 And so, you know, I've always I don't want to say I respected his work, but, you know, 89b1a406-1010-41cc-89b9-3b47e2f3da57 I always think he does a good job. e0fd89a5-b05c-41ee-8a0c-4104a90d3bc5 I knew it. I knew it was coming. f22891f6-e1ab-404c-8c71-0a60ad3b6610 Yeah. What about you? When did when did Alex first cross your transom? 7522eef4-bfa3-40df-ae4e-14a080884d93 I first heard about Alex through our mutual friend Conrad, 212c06a7-dd5e-4645-91c3-ef19be980a54 and I had heard about a couple things that he had climbed and that he had free, 4cb9e5b7-97f3-410f-9cad-58b5b4425f9b soloed moonlight Buttress in Zion and that he had soloed Half Dome in Yosemite. 7c929106-0458-4264-8dff-e2a6013723ec

10:22 And I remember distinctly thinking he's either a total fraud or afe02fe2-e0c1-4295-9386-78733342c1cb the greatest climber of all time. 6b22112e-2d33-4ae1-8afc-5e9b7e0248da Basically in my mind, because it was 6f3b0d2b-ca06-47d7-b52d-66ef7eb60592 so futuristic in my mind that someone would solo that that it was certainly 7f8082fc-4ef9-4306-b20c-c1c9827aa3b0 for me, questionable. a7df2154-d8b1-42b5-bea6-8e21e791845b And 437ac0c2-1eb9-40f5-a983-cd54d6498f60 that’s why you had to make a movie of it. Yes, for myself, we got to. 849e2732-7531-480b-b91f-ad2483b49b25 Document this and make sure he's actually doing what he says he's doing now. 1b1a73fe-ba77-4c09-a8b7-04ce0f851c61 But then, you know, through through the grapevine, I heard it was legitimate. f3cada1e-1fa9-4eaf-82a0-9f8c31f50b75

10:53 But my. Initial reaction when I heard about what he'd done was I was like, a2db0c32-74ba-4fb4-87cf-4ed8dbb7a367 There's no way somebody did that. And he's how old? And I think, How old are you? 20. 0bb4f48b-b875-4dde-b5b2-fb27f428e385 22. When I started doing some of the things. 07ed361f-4041-4fa1-a17f-109660053492 I mean, it was pretty unbelievable 83f3fd62-e866-4be6-a557-a6efba6cde04 for for me, I couldn't wrap my head around it. e0a77d48-2062-485e-9a5f-1322d98f3efa And obviously I'd been working with some of the greatest climbers in the world, b43ffc3d-5677-4b50-a008-033b312f4f0f so I'd seen the best of the best. And I filmed and shot with the best of the best. b951b68c-87a4-4514-9558-7e86a9d4281f

11:26 And this was still hard for me to fathom. a42418f4-db2c-475e-987d-4ec732d4c114 And so then 1c5adbb5-9f14-428d-8ee5-e0304039e60e Connor and I, Conrad, I think, introduced us. 542493bf-00a5-4458-a578-cb1dc199c5a2 We went I think we went on your first international climbing expedition or Borneo. ff5e0a53-8dbd-46b1-9d12-89cb38bf93ec Yeah. Yeah. 667ce41c-3e42-4f6f-ba11-807925793093 And c456cc3a-5881-4f04-8d61-1181f0dd67d8 I mean, if you've seen free solo, there's, you know, 94558c8d-136d-4deb-8bfc-7b645116efbc you see a bit of the maybe awkwardness of Alex. 85cbd880-eade-4973-818f-c3c63a44c114 It was like that times ten when I first know 15dae0bb-71ad-4f93-aece-6536661859d3

12:00 that's fair. But we were but we all, we. 42e23c34-94b5-4ea1-b06c-db3258119e45 All grow up. d3cbfe97-6f83-4ea0-87a5-b7057cc74a93 I've seen quite an evolution in the last ten years, but we, we started working together. 999c9bfd-10d6-4cdb-9c11-223ddc9ed244 And I remember on that trip we were on this wall and it was 0e8f0a2d-3463-43be-8a6b-b64bfff90f3a the first time we'd ever is the first ascent of this big, this new route on this wall. 5f80cc42-c0de-44f7-8b9f-e163906a1f36 And there was this really like kind of crazy steep pitch of climbing like 120 foot 884ce25c-7738-45b2-ba40-2c5aa13953bb

12:32 pitch or something, and. It was the first moment where a96315c2-5804-475c-b7a3-5304a75cb376 I got to see Alex kind of questing off into unknown terrain like nobody had climbed cf0ef527-eb18-4d89-ad67-812ecec00dc3 it before. And that was really eye opening because it was the first time 2e94c04e-fb6e-465c-9026-5abbf5cd0c7a I really got to see him being focused, 07d60f90-0a23-4a46-ae27-aa94eb4c96f6 trying something new in a really remote alpine. Well, kind of. And 06ae296d-f0f3-472c-92d5-ae42c0e1c48b it I remember thinking, okay, yeah, this he's for sure the real deal. 41a79738-7017-4597-a0df-8f5e76502ea9

13:04 Not that I questioned it up to that point even, but it was, 561b6fa8-06da-4a93-9b5b-78fede933cb1 it was pretty impressive to see. And then I think we just started 3d72d130-54de-4bce-8c45-732b462d8c09 filming and shooting together over the years. 6e8419d1-f376-4064-94a3-cca69c17ae6b But actually, I might just add, though, ef1781c3-b6e4-4590-bcdc-1d4a20d3c70f that the film Free Solo kind of came together through sheer good fortune 7a10599e-f148-4774-bb9b-492210160f50 and that he and his wife and co-director of the film approached me about doing c819de74-29c4-4567-a2f8-9aaa40feaaa0 a feature film, sort of coincidentally, 69195aab-9089-4bb4-9c33-c7d47b3a44c6 at the exact moment that I'd finally decided that I wanted to free solo cap and 31491e6b-f23d-4ecf-a719-8dab0dcb8a1d I wanted to put the work in and I wanted to, you know, 71a653d9-1a2c-4b73-99b0-6ca670a15aaf

13:34 it's like it'd been something I've been dreaming about for years 83315bfa-63fa-4f76-9682-4bd250e75f4a and hoping that it would just happen. 357e2b6b-ca4a-4cd2-9823-ae748e054de9 And finally I realized that it was never going to just happen. 336fc7b8-f6b3-4956-a739-9c34c70e7954 I needed to actually work on it. f837c01d-bd9f-4bc8-a0a1-04e986de6ae4 And then coincidentally, they approached me about the film at the exact same time, b8184719-46d2-4882-9a05-1c8b3142cdf2 and I was like, Oh, this is perfect. f169390e-e071-4bb3-b483-aade9136574c We can make a film about this because actually it helps quite 6929a21e-d599-4fa3-b20b-c75800655488 a bit to have filmmakers involved in some way because there's 15f9ca2b-ba69-4649-bf3f-7a5a39a406b3 so much work involved in preparing for a climb like this, 3448667d-24a9-4146-889a-f3614b65a5d3 just to carry all the ropes to the top, to to repel in, you know, 9a883785-e8be-40f5-8eba-87aacd092d8c basically it helped to have a team because I was like, Oh. c14113a4-bb8c-4416-a254-8303da324db6 They were like your Sherpas. 7b11006c-abd4-49d7-bb37-b939152bcaee Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, my friends were. 8d1a51c1-3628-459f-a832-cbdce341cb64

14:09 Winning Oscar winning Sherpas. d28d73ff-afbe-4de9-be7e-8c16d9c639ed Yeah. I've carried a lot of ropes for Alex, let's just put it that way, which is fine. c235981f-fdf1-416c-8b86-6c6f7f29edd9 I've carried a lot of rope for you guys. Do? 9226d890-e3e4-4e63-a126-56a9b4f3d104 That's true. e89c9b99-2c15-4469-8d72-457bf4575fc6 That's true. It's all. It's all. It all works. Teammates. d4ce9d7c-f914-4e76-b47d-3801a3aaa8fa Well, when you can you deconstruct for these guys. Why? Why? 79ca168f-69c6-4920-b0ac-4696ec1fbad1 What is it about Jimmy? Is it his nature? Is it his instinct for storytelling? c7541018-4d39-4d59-8b2e-ea48a00a9162 Is that his relationship with Chai and how that maybe changes where the way he edits 1d36c339-1bd2-412c-bf47-20055c448aaa or the way he structures a narrative? c644d7fe-718c-4c1c-b289-db741655369c Well, actually, Chai does all the editing. bb3a6d69-e030-4704-bab9-2d4e1356d972

14:41 I was like, careful. Yeah. No. c2cd9f67-5103-46c9-ab17-b7361915e31c Like, do you do you have a do you have a thesis about why Jimmy is Jimmy Jin? 14febaba-b6d0-4d0c-9d8b-813b95dafde4 Well, I mean, I've always said that part of Jimmy's success as ec7acf5e-c0de-4367-abbe-77085ad3bc09 an outdoor filmmaker is just the fact that you're able to get to fdbbe379-e3b1-49dc-be85-b1c6cbcbf004 the places that other people can't shoot as well. af352cb7-d223-4ae8-954d-6d6e75932b2b I mean, basically, Jimmy can hike quickly. He can ascend lines quickly. 242048f0-9de7-4651-a715-594f4143a27f Like basically he can just get to the place and do 3bc0f584-4a59-42b6-931e-fd77311d319b the thing without holding people up. 737df087-29cc-4966-8671-7daa8139a6ef And I mean, basically just getting there is half the battle. 1c17a9a3-e2bf-4229-9838-cba353c1f779 I mean, obviously, you know, 0be8d0b4-1c56-4bbe-ae15-97a1ec194e49 getting the money shot and making it look pretty as is something. f17a3d41-d11d-4041-bf5a-47268f21c4d2

15:13 But but just being able to get there at all is not easy. fa74a262-e11a-4249-acab-ebfab446108f Well, like I mean, because we've been on a few expeditions where actually, dude, man, 608a0ca7-3cbb-4321-9a60-711b42e27c5e this is perfectly timed. We were in Antarctica and this is from Antarctica. aeedf847-3ba7-4bf3-bc4f-aaa2b4f14c59 And you know, Jimmy can ski ahead, get in position, 8c4e603e-56e5-47aa-8505-c1171adb7baf take some cool shots of everybody skiing by and then sort of still carry on. f96d5fdb-0197-4fc5-ab88-0032ae99e004 And you don't have to wait for him. e75a6f3e-c758-4e63-9e52-a0a54fa14e9d You don't have to, you know, I mean, 12a94bd6-619d-4f7e-a458-b493ff06947f I think part of being a successful outdoor photographer is just being able to do 668932de-d232-4b27-b3f8-7c98622552d3 the things well enough to to stay ahead of everybody. 98919524-8947-4921-b7d1-afa984e3a639 Yeah. And why is Alex Alex, what about is it his nature? 1c3625ee-4f17-430c-a590-680f3871f9c7

15:44 Is there something about the awkwardness that actually allows him to do f4d6df09-510a-4f4e-8eeb-31ca9f289526 this sort of thing? fda6fa67-55fe-4d13-adfa-1ed1fff01175 Yeah, it means I can't find any partners. Yeah. a0261b03-6783-44a8-b8e4-9dc7c7bac96b I was. I wasn't going to say that, but the thought has crossed my mind. d5433712-1019-42cd-9c74-5af69c8577ed There's a reason he was free soloing. b270a44c-8c48-4027-b1bb-7c9bb190d267 That’s, like, not even a joke. I mean, that’s basically 0ac2026e-6791-4157-ace3-47a300baf30a true. It is basically true. But I would say, I don’t know. 09ef9e40-d081-43c0-9f25-7782ea57148a I mean, this last week, it still kind of is mind boggling. 6b3b5d2f-887b-49e2-a524-8dfbd5304ecc

16:17 Less last week I was in Red Rocks climbing this route called the Rainbow Wall, 8d7084fe-32da-40c1-a4d0-2f864615bbfb which is this 12 pitch. If there's climbers out there, it's like five, 12. 11d15620-e48d-47cf-9d60-464550fc6e16 It's like 1000 foot tall sandstone cliff. 46f47617-6b1d-4649-bbbb-de831e5f0437 And, you know, that's kind of like a project of mine. c4fca99b-0303-4354-aba6-86082a9d4712 I mean, I've climbed it before, but I haven't climbed it clean. 7d8000a6-02f7-4c1d-89b7-5e69f9499e7c And I was up there, you know, climbing on, climbing on it. d2e3ab2a-38f9-4789-bd32-c045a3d64bdb And the first couple of pitches are very difficult for me. 3144b5ea-dbf1-42db-a3f4-d8e535d86149

16:48 Well, not very difficult, but, you know, they're challenging. 89988155-0d6e-4ad8-a5da-68c538f24c82 And Alex had soloed this route how many years ago? f8ffeff2-ca3d-4e54-99d5-64946547f912 Like 2010. f41d3e7c-7762-4c04-a1f6-a9457b57b1bf Two, the first time I've seen. cad28200-5b58-4dd3-a97f-4c0945ffdac0 But I've sold it several times, actually. 06e0e937-d820-4496-8f1c-e6cc0c77755b Just. 5154c3d1-809b-4282-ac0f-2aec1af22687 And just in case you care. 27d78b98-6bb1-4e01-ac1f-c127f2357736 We like accuracy, Jimmy. 220d33e1-5a96-492c-b89a-9b6f61f6f5ab Yeah. I mean, you know. ddde4ef5-41c1-47f1-aea1-84b9a4b5112f We sold it multiple times. 50d62277-81e7-4593-aa11-63ac3bb32fda Yeah. Yeah. 6cda63e1-38d3-43c6-88bb-40d9b742fdec Oh, my gosh. Okay, so it's so classic because you go on routes e540029b-fb0d-4c84-b6bc-3766bcee24b3 and you'll climb them and you know, 3230c241-d00f-439d-9eb2-a61d5c92cd3e you're still get to the top of the pitch and be like, 203c8805-af54-4562-a2f5-0d06e8f63c68

17:21 I cannot believe he soloed this pitch. It's like, you just can't register it. 40914419-3b0d-434b-8dde-c39aea113fff And I've thought about it a lot, obviously. I mean. 33eca7db-115a-4f7a-9f4e-cd7be5947068 Part of it is the skill and the craft of being an absolutely excellent climber a0f3bb3f-73fa-40f3-8cd3-88c31c65a3e3 and talented climber. But it's the the part that's hard to understand is, you know, f4561ffb-8848-430c-8354-27a144602b3e I understand how you expand your comfort zone to continue to push 3e1eb140-f6e9-47d9-933c-486a5cf90389

17:52 the edge of what you do and, you know, also improve in the craft of what you are doing. 6276513e-b0e2-4bb6-a335-c75d69a33ad1 It's just. And I have seen the process literally how he does it. 39027666-5818-460e-bb57-89e8a7366ebf But it's still really hard to wrap my head around. a3514d09-c17d-4f14-bcd7-dfa963ebcb57 And you don't meditate like you're not a meditator. 2c90fb60-d480-49c4-8342-1f39721eeb63 I thought for sure as I was studying you that 628eaa1e-ce3f-467e-ac43-123e685b94e0 I was going to discover that you were like this Buddha inside. b5d25339-5037-421d-a2a0-2b7d59037be4 Now, people. Yeah. It's easier than you think, actually. e74538b6-b76c-4214-acbe-0ad63da4010e So Funny enough, after the film Free Solo came out 81913df8-bb04-4d83-83a6-9970cb352b9e

18:23 and we were doing sort of this crazy six month movie tour, 0b9766d6-46f9-4268-ac99-6742e5509e80 which I called my deployment to Hollywood because it was like this insane. 314d595f-9efa-4155-958d-6cc4cb98347c It's like events nonstop for months doing things. 6a6126d2-99e5-47fe-901a-9559413f1703 So during that period, I actually tried to learn how to meditate. cf325f28-2c0d-4e46-afad-d99215aa8e9b You know, I sit in my hotel room and be like, home and and, you know, it was fine. 3077940f-40e9-47b5-bcb8-d836382ac1dd Like, it was great. And then as soon as I started climbing full time again, like, fcdf279d-2da3-4cc6-ae7c-e7ed9d17e4f8 as soon as the film tour wrapped up and I was back to just normal life, b8993aea-b1ed-4317-ae73-69972ad5069a like going outdoors, I was like, 9ddc249b-9bde-4657-88c4-827b133d1e9c I just don't need this because I spent so much time hiking by myself in the woods e182ac6e-d7b4-4343-a297-17afbbbf32c4 and climbing and doing things. 21caec77-15eb-40d0-b7bf-d6c0b2485343 It's like, I don't need structured time where I just empty my mind because 164b2d92-65cf-4a52-98e8-10228861b861

18:55 I basically get the same thing through climbing. 1913fa6d-7065-4c79-9f57-5dedf9168c8f Yeah. 0ace1c38-d89c-47c7-8a0e-9c4d2cabb51c So and more importantly, I don't think that having f7adc84a-23a7-47b1-a20a-6aeb1eec5653 a cluttered mind is one of my big problems to begin with. It's very empty in there. ecfaa34a-2599-4fab-ad74-019d90730723 You know. 927e05ee-809a-4efc-a8ad-10f950c2a7a1 I do want to follow up, though, 57db5a0d-aea5-400a-ad18-8e41e673c520 not to say, yes, that's true. He's very empty up there. 16e2651a-ff90-408d-a678-c42440d23cbc But no, I mean, to go back to that question 6f059646-84fe-4068-9c95-2a1579a42a34 of expanding the comfort zone, so much of what we do is preparation and preparation. d888232c-e8bd-42a0-977c-d4da67e4f3a1

19:29 And, you know, I felt the edges of that where I prepared for something for so long 8c47517a-b40a-4420-aafe-7f1dfacad365 and was so kind of dialed in to what I was doing, 9e5df788-0ac0-4b2d-8f89-53d75d289946 that I had the comfort to push the edge. f4712242-3ace-4768-b23d-785c3f083a22 And I think skiing Everest was one of those things where, you know, ba804e80-e3db-48de-95eb-c5bdd3f7dd56 when I first moved to Jackson, Wyoming, skiing, the Grand Teton was like a huge deal. 66212438-24fe-42ef-9d35-1911d659cd06 And it was a big goal of mine for many, many years. 4fe9132a-1864-47a7-b9e5-4839801bd175 And then once I skied it, I started skiing it pretty routinely. b5d8bef8-ef93-498b-8ff6-84b0687bbd3e

20:02 But then when before I was going to Everest, I was skiing it like three times a week, bf61a823-39a8-4831-a291-d318a10e2dc0 you know, and just doing laps on it, laps on it. 72f35fac-43d1-41dc-9897-8f2bb4df4cbc And that just it allowed me to go to a place that was much more remote fbf1aadd-cdef-4860-a5fe-cef9bfa8f555 and much bigger. And I felt much more comfortable because. 9974b6c3-eb4f-43ff-8e97-890de27a4c57 Of all of that time being comfortable in what used to be not that comfortable. 306f145d-0270-4e9f-83af-a02f05825ba9 So I kind of understand it. But the level of just because I'm not as good of b392a503-0a85-412a-b809-89fd0e273897

20:32 a rock climber anywhere near as Alex, but neither am I can kind of get it. 9811c2ac-1b6b-48f0-b503-3d99e35138fd But it is the preparation, I think, of just building that gradually and. 313dfe28-3180-4dbc-a67f-36f0966a21e7 Just and just to be clear and kind of fair. 2abfac4d-fc41-4c51-992f-a09dbfc9c7d8 I mean, I went through the exact same process. f55f4166-51c4-4502-b925-cf96e3a9137d I mean, with with specifically, I first climbed El Cap in 2006, I think, c307eb1d-ffd9-4cf6-8e27-5ce68d75ea2f and it was our my partner and my big goal for the season just to get up the wall in 7f61e385-80eb-4acf-b3b7-eed18787789c a day. And we got up in 22 hours. We were completely crushed. ba44c0ec-2dd4-4df0-b7ef-0eb319ac17bc It was like the hardest thing we'd ever done. 12d5caf7-552b-40c8-85d1-9120c642f359 And then in the 15 plus years since then, you know, 70d302ca-d355-42dc-b6a4-2cde43fb2655

21:06 I've gone from barely being able to do in a day to setting 706e5232-f2b7-494c-aef7-1e789adecec7 the speed record to climbing it multiple times in a day, 69551437-8000-4487-9c94-92f2ed2fec93 to climbing different routes and then eventually to free soloing it. a5085d49-f1d7-442f-906d-cb3942464fc9 And so, you know, it's been 15 years of effort and progression and 7df37327-48cd-423a-984f-1fe8c8f33a57 and slowly building up from where we started. 316083bb-7581-4b20-938d-45eeaf02f445 Yeah, Yeah. And there's a relationship between risk and progress. 5b52319e-dafc-4052-bbd0-26e1208a99d5 But there's also the very true fact that people who prepare as much and as well c12e962c-cb4c-4aff-96ff-84c898a3b62b and as conscientiously as you do die. So we have a mutual friend, Jim Morrison. 884e2e5c-09bc-4b28-8e66-b119095138e7

21:38 His partner, Hilary Nelson, was killed in a 6000 foot drop in Nepal. f69c1015-6930-42c8-bc4f-f2c6b8f435f3 Probably one of the best in the business at what she did. 5d056371-45c6-42e5-8004-935dd0063af2 I want to know how you process the fact of that, 9a3d9141-8db8-41e6-aebe-89fc25225c4a that there is no preparing your way all the way out of mortal risk. fd0ef527-8ff3-4cbc-90c2-c2f033e053ed Well, part of that, I mean, we have different answers for this 690b5a0a-4d52-4047-9850-0d8c1d56bf24 because he does things more in big mountains than alpine terrain. 540002b7-986b-444b-996a-ef5977a578d3 And I mostly stick to rock climbing and certainly on rock, 4f17eba4-2c72-4b4d-9a07-0d38d77e1a25

22:11 in a place like East Valley, there are just fewer objective hazards like that. 51a1972b-1493-4e70-847e-74020fc3adad There's less random risk. And so preparation, I think, cbcec827-90eb-4f39-8210-2814090785f7 takes you a little further in places that are that are less random, you know. 4af9f2a5-ec92-4c74-b32a-2a32cc04db33 But the mountains are super complex environments and snow science ee29b152-21e8-43de-80cc-d433306b7187 and snow safety and weather and all those kinds of things. f7bc773c-e58c-4e8e-abe7-f9279daebd7a Like they just they're just more random. 5cda4513-eb46-4f88-85de-67cd8ee9315f And so fundamentally, there's just there's 1ec85356-a3c8-4c62-b94b-b0481539556d a little bit more more chance involved with those types of endeavors. 4a7511eb-f3b5-489a-8772-ec84838a2f71 But surely when you were free soloing, you were putting your life at risk. 2edb7e16-109f-4c3a-8b61-2576ebdc2dfb Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously. bb2b089a-e282-46ac-a305-2fe0dbde3f63

22:42 But that said, you know, you practice it to b61dae6c-de03-44d6-9de1-881d8375c346 the point that it doesn't feel like you're rolling the dice. 08095ba6-9db8-475b-8bc1-4011f33e024f It feels like you're just doing something that, you know, you can do. 992ac0c7-3ae3-4f1f-bb9f-c0cb3473105b And I mean, of course the rational mind knows that you're still sort of rolling. f7fa756f-595a-4dbf-9ff2-b2d8d1a332fa You know, there's still some chance that something could go wrong. 734e3f5b-d947-49c7-8d3e-56bd20233185 But you're just so confident. Like you just don't feel like anything will go wrong. 0f88bff6-cd84-46e9-9ec7-7ad00180396d Do you want to come back to you on this question? 132bbc87-12d0-48b2-a435-95dba6d8e134 But do you have mostly success fantasies or mostly fear of failure mind? 13f4bcfa-03ec-4162-b9dc-ed58202bccef

23:12 In other words, when you are imagining this move that you're going to make this 897302ac-7cb6-401b-a9af-35d8b2a51791 achievement that you're going to pursue, e1b1194f-4868-4985-8a46-3ac76ffcf012 are you thinking how great it's going to be to summit? 2e871e6c-7cbc-4ed4-9383-30fb1ab8bf35 Or are you thinking about every conceivable way that it could go wrong or both? 9d449147-87a7-4b55-8ab8-6b8081693f81 Yeah, both a little bit. I mean, 51ee79e9-d618-4122-92f8-a4b171b3757b I definitely spent some time thinking about how amazing it will be to get at the top e8a92d10-73d6-4588-82b1-7b0ff3dace0d and be like, That's so incredible. 5b77ccaa-0fe7-4e1a-8ed1-4c66962c1345 But then I also think about what it would be like to fall off certain places. a98ee97f-e977-4a7a-ae9d-d3a95d30965e You know, if you fall off the hardest part of freestyling specifically, e77bcdfa-7071-4913-8e08-11b0c7ec49b3 you'd bounce off this thing 60 or 80ft below. 47b74746-c2c2-4e2d-beca-4df284a54bf8

23:42 It'd be it'd be a horrible, horrible way to die in that it wouldn't be a clean fall, 21609cb1-7f77-4ac8-be66-b1e3b73da58a but it also wouldn't be like it would be a disaster, 5b3086f2-4354-4d2e-ac64-9445451bafb9 Like you would hit all kinds of things 085cfd3b-631b-4a9b-9234-9d66fcca639a and you would be you'd wish you were dead before you hit the ground. f1942ef5-b7df-42cf-b222-08c293e158a7 You know, it was like. And so you visualize those kinds of things. 9b411fd8-24b2-4d3e-b9d9-79376a8c586c But I think that's important 236b6250-aa27-4382-95e0-2784323e9b20 because you don't want that stuff just popping up in your mind for a134f6ee-27ad-43d1-941b-c99a35f561ef the first time while you're doing it. 7b0ea2ed-9d48-4c88-9dc9-29ffb85f1f43 It's like while you're doing the the difficult sections of climbing, fd0c10f0-b18f-4baf-8822-c425365b0494 you don’t want to just suddenly realize, like man, if I slipped here, 19a4143d-82f9-4abc-b0db-35ad9ccac2b7 it would be terrible. It's like, you know, 8d2c4dd6-3fe5-424f-8ba4-55833ca4a716 that it's going to be terrible and you need to kind of set that aside ahead of time c4e9b0f0-e61f-4c0a-8abe-42ad3f8165ba

24:12 and then go up there and just perform. 3780d4e8-8d50-46e1-9a43-da066e51a613 How do you deal with loss? You've lost people. 46a61fb5-a84d-41a7-abaf-8f569fd933ed Yeah, I was still thinking about his answer because d894cd4e-3bf1-49a2-8c96-f3ff5f9a550a I remember Alex talking to me about how he prepared mentally and going through 1e90a645-18d1-4012-830f-2d014a11f922 a worst case scenarios all the time, and I've done it quite a bit too, c8f4509f-05da-4b26-9860-bf2a0ea1fe4d because it's the only way to understand how to mitigate the risk to in some ways. 936b0176-0fb8-450d-9e40-4beab7297752 Is to live it out. And like. 6cde2e62-0bcc-4c1a-9834-5ba1a47c47d2

24:42 Well, it's and it's also just real detail. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 90f913bd-9ba0-4911-8907-137f7677bd17 But to anticipate worst case scenarios is, c749930e-6879-475b-9ede-67a2596742e4 is absolutely a necessity when you're going on expeditions or doing climbs 0ac1c4ad-20c7-4802-8f0e-799bce54d455 or really in any real endeavor just so that you're prepared 678cb6b3-711f-46b1-813a-baaa3f46dec7 or not prepared to just deal with it, d7a70eb6-f469-4020-8238-9c45d1b1636a but hopefully that you can mitigate the the risk or the issue. d9a8e20d-32e6-43a7-8c7f-e0e52dc471d5 But in terms of loss and risk, I mean, I 6f1f2cad-7992-4ed9-8888-ec51061d063a

25:12 think. You know, in my peer group or our peer group, d91f20cb-1047-4a72-b3d7-0ac93ee3b6af we have a specific kind of relationship to risk and maybe not exactly the same. 39e6eb90-c6af-4044-82d6-605030224444 But in general, you know, I think first of all, risk is relative, right? 1e2db429-eb23-4a08-9088-76e95aa3d72a Like when Alex looks like he's climbing on something that's really terrifying 78d066a4-abaf-4e40-b9c6-4f9d98f3e727 for 99.9% of the population, 05e79b31-6ba3-4db5-a34b-7bdef3310780 it's probably like walking down the sidewalk for him so long. 37c4fab7-7457-4b52-a7e3-4bbff120081f

25:42 But there's traffic on the side. 25047462-4857-40ef-9557-b9d7654572f3 And if so long as he keeps walking on the sidewalk and doesn't jump into traffic, 23054405-a855-4adf-963f-39c0a3aefd0c he's totally it's pedestrian for him. ae5a5149-efe2-4e46-ad09-431df7a7e036 Speaking of when people talk about risk, 33ca85ca-f133-450c-9b6c-4aea5fbbf20a I frequently talk about like it's not as dangerous as 0bd185a0-fa4b-4c84-80c1-7bded03ee4ae the city streets in New York or whatever. f4659879-821d-4555-8da5-a45fdbfb4ebf Anyway, I just spent two days in New York for a work thing and I was like, 2262550c-0771-44bb-8611-24ad01e59235 I stand by that because New York City, like like every time you cross the street, e8a608e3-e9ca-413c-b760-cb72eca91903 you're like, looking in all directions. a512a6ca-62ac-46f9-a8ee-d8f3edb521c2 At any moment you might get blindsided by a scooter, 26c0f109-df46-4b75-a40d-ea8acf3933a2 like some electric thing you can't hear. 63d69be6-77c1-4b34-a77a-81d156faa27c And it's all kind of I was like, New York is pretty sketchy. a7ff4566-ccbb-4b79-ad51-50f5bf1add49

26:12 And, you know, and the thing about climbing is at least it's b0111737-4f79-409b-860b-d6acd3c0cec1 a little bit more under your own control. c0d98bc7-321e-4e56-bc63-bf8d1ee642c5 I mean, when we're talking about preparation and all training and those kinds of things, 665b4353-aa67-4727-adcd-eadf77372a15 I mean, it really is up to you. ef0f9f7d-7395-4507-b63d-d4ca3292af33 And if you and, you know, you might botch like you might make an error and you might, bd86953c-567a-424b-ad60-646cfec690b0 but at least it'd be sort of an unforced error. b7480227-8ad8-49c3-b8c6-78bdea354613 Like at least it would just be on you that you made a mistake that you should have, 419c4371-41f6-4b18-b662-605e23852462 should have seen coming. It's not like you're going to get blindsided by a scooter c4fdc0de-e395-497f-813d-dca3258fc246 and be like, whoa, never saw that coming. I don't know. I was like, New York freaking. 5e46adb6-c3d2-442d-95b7-76447a009c8b I mean, you live there like Jesus. It's amazing that he survived. 8596f991-390c-4e35-b79a-1b11eec61995

26:42 I know. For all kinds of reasons. New Yorkers. Yeah. 0aea174d-a439-41a9-aa57-5e698cb4b643 Um, but I think the way we think about risk and, you know, 7f14b62e-d5c7-4e05-b6d7-e52621407379 what we choose to do is a lot about how we view risk in general. 40e5093d-f16a-42b2-b260-03203737b369 Because I think, and I've used this quote before because it's from f311e0ad-09c1-4784-99f5-9657c2948117 a good friend of mine, Jon Krakauer, and he said this to me early on in my career. 45e3472b-371f-4fa4-a1bb-b6d9b8bf3ff9 He said, There are two great risks in life risking too much and risking too little. b845e626-436a-4600-ba81-f4fd03ca641e

27:16 And, you know, just looking at life where you're evaluating e098b8d5-55c4-4f4c-aaa9-ecb6c8f352e5 the cost of risking too little because there is a cost of not taking risks. 61958910-6874-42b6-994e-93692589f77a And, you know, where you decide to put that threshold is is a very personal decision. d0e1815c-ff80-4758-9f4d-5cc8c5c0f0cc But, you know, if you want to pursue 3468457e-243b-43d3-838e-152bac28fab4 your dreams or the greatest expression of who you are, f8bfa7ab-00fd-48b3-bf05-4e153aef1c9a which is what a lot of us are doing, you know, 76497368-8053-4d2c-a653-dd8efdcfc495

27:48 what are you willing to risk to to to do those things? 246e0651-9311-4c26-bbdd-bb87a9277fbd And, you know, I think in a lot of cases, um, the accidents or how people die, 2ffe8e9e-96c5-48c8-a165-b9c796d376bc they can happen in terrain or in situations that are fairly pedestrian. 7ebbbf60-80c8-45aa-b3ef-0c6fa420ec46 And it's not when they're functioning at their top level. f55fb850-7864-44ce-b460-c42fc522135f And some people buy this, but and some people don't. d53601f4-0c5d-4751-90d7-e52d3e7a925c But like Alex said, I mean, essentially life is risk. 59abdc03-020d-4fd8-80ce-9d34e874854f

28:20 You walk out the front door and it's risk. You drive down the highway and it's risk. 54022c1c-c115-4f05-a13e-424728706651 My wife totally does not buy this, dff668e3-c66d-45f6-9498-ff4ec3ee6e45 but I actually given I spent a lot of time assessing risk 0f006651-314a-407b-b3b9-a9f9172f9d76 and watching people doing various things that other people think are highly risky. 12650fb7-e4ac-43cf-baf8-4ba22ac52639 I feel like I have a pretty good point of view on it. a38f7f70-5bdc-4de6-8dc7-795da4235138 And, you know, like in a lot of cases, e2955305-a92f-418a-86a6-0e739bdf3a6c people that we know in our peer group that die have died in fairly kind of. 7d27e851-5772-4a49-b4b1-dc8c62ab1226

28:55 For them pedestrian situations in which there was an unforeseen and fairly e9eebe29-0b63-48e1-b580-43e41b3f1eb4 unpredictable kind of objective hazard, like a small avalanche. 9ade5b19-c215-483f-a5e9-25d29fbefee3 Or can I jump, Benjamin, while we're talking about risk? 06a82043-2e34-4fc3-a253-013985092854 I mean, there's also some you said for making intentional choices about 88459230-1c25-4311-af06-a55a555c32ed the risks you're willing to take, because I think that when we're talking about risk, 909fd7d7-16d0-44f7-aa38-60b9bd67b47b we're talking about risks that we're approaching totally open. c30cbed5-df07-48f1-a362-7883cedf1e05 I'd like this is something we want to do. We're choosing to do it. f08de19c-4df6-4fc3-8593-1c37c5c7e175 We're mitigating risk as best we can, 0696de08-552a-43c2-8d2f-8a35d7f25241

29:26 but we're accepting the risks that we're taking. c6bc4677-5278-4956-a204-05690391566d And I feel like a lot of the risk that people take in their lives are risks that 2e6bc1c0-49de-48d2-a191-62054f0e1231 they're not really choosing. 03617b0d-2e39-4e2e-897a-b0f2f4360348 You know, it's like when people go out partying on a Saturday night 199c74a4-012d-4a9a-b840-4af81c6c6ad8 and then they drive home drunk. 256b686d-aacf-4837-b2fb-f59de189ee75 They didn't choose like, I'm going to take this risk tonight. 20743e9e-8803-4109-b5b7-848bd0b74bef It's like they just went and partied. f50e4fe2-e440-471b-9923-1d0a2848eec9 But then it turns out they are rolling the dice be041e8b-67e8-4fdc-9fb3-4cdc1c8c2450 and they are taking some big risks with their lives, 5f76b90d-9501-4543-a9d7-796881efe9ef but they're just not intentional about it. 33d897fc-0efc-4720-b5b3-ae941126d2a2 And so, you know, that's also the other side of like leading a really, 9036894d-5123-45fd-842f-442cf00523d7 really active lifestyle, like we're climbing in the mountains nonstop. 9afcfb21-8ceb-4b63-b87a-24171f86bcb5 And so we're relatively fit. And so we're at lower risk of lots of lifestyle diseases. fa0e52af-b56d-47b9-93ab-da52e5f60de4

29:56 And that's the kind of stuff where it's like, yeah, fd301eff-6e80-47dd-b415-250e777d01a3 you can choose not to take risks in the mountains, 99c9ebeb-56b0-47bd-bc1b-42e671407afb but if you're leading a sedentary lifestyle, f028575e-332b-4b18-b5fe-64f8b2641ce8 you're at higher risk for other sorts of things, you know, I mean, f4581be9-b03c-44a5-bd0d-c68cd4b62c0f like my dad was a professor and he was relatively sedentary and he died of e0ba0933-c377-4a3f-a0e1-b6fc53975f54 a heart attack at 55, totally out of the blue, running through an airport. 0d296c9e-4974-4066-a1f3-1f4d5f091d8d And you're sort of like, well, I mean, that's the other side of the risk coin. 1f0cdc56-676e-479e-a5ad-9bb6ceab69df It's like if you're not being active and you're not doing lots of things, 4b7f2950-baf0-4336-baf5-c583971fb496 then you're at a higher risk of just dropping dead from other causes. 8fa00bd2-17ec-40c1-b2dc-f92b54976efd And so, you know, I mean, and not to totally equate them c044a9a8-8b0b-4fd4-96f6-161205137f9d because obviously climbing mountains is more dangerous than than running through airports. 07b26c91-70d5-4e87-ad3d-f3919fd08f6a

30:28 Like that's clear. But at least we're making intentional choices about 36046bf5-0789-4eed-a950-c33bd4882f56 the risks that we're that we're choosing to take. c8fadba7-d218-429a-a953-6c3cc56578f3 All these years you've been out there, what are you seeing in terms of climate change? 5a02bef1-c21b-4ad7-bf71-11a2ea237037 Like. Is it evident to you? Are you feeling it? 4d16d2f3-adc6-436b-b7b8-8bc59b29270b I would. 10604d33-883a-4a63-9f7b-f3b12e98c38f Well, I'm like, speaking about risks that we don't care about. Yeah. It's, like, apropos. e6c87c55-38fc-4fc5-8e26-dcf46a27c043 Yeah. c5b672a5-5138-4f97-b37f-f0938adbafdf I mean, I think the obvious ones for people like ourselves who spent 1e16f261-cb95-4037-b150-992293ed9f22 a lot of time outside, you know, 0c8d024e-bd8f-48cd-9624-a4d91471a0a7

30:59 you are hyper conscious of the environment and weather and it's part of 0edb0d8b-9b11-49d8-8d53-f75076a24081 the reason we enjoy it, just the rawness of of being out there. 2459fb3b-9229-4c0b-9c9a-28deddb4fd22 But I would say for me, the most obvious 4c33c945-615b-47d0-993c-d1d440801dc3 just visually that I think people can wrap their heads around is just the the bc1d0b2c-b08c-4f4e-b7e7-74b91c253667 the glaciers in Europe retreating, retreating. 105c5fae-c84a-4329-b83f-cc05cb724b77 I mean, it's I mean, paying attention at all. It it's pretty dramatic right there. 2b66e7b5-ed18-440c-b139-dfbfd71201cf

31:31 The story is right there. Yeah. 0a734159-6602-4280-b059-968e07e6041c I mean, every every big mountain range in the world, you can see glaciers retreating. ee015b55-b233-40c1-974d-8602dd91ee24 It's like I mean, I feel like part of the reason that there's 4b5e77c4-404b-4269-9139-5be6fb15df35 so much reluctance to act on climate in the US is c0e65fcc-2d03-4acd-a37c-33ca32363d71 because we don't really have any glaciated ranges like in the in in the US, d88711be-19c4-4c44-afa5-afec900fb10f nobody lives near glaciers. You can't just see them moving back up the mountain. aceea356-50a9-42a5-b374-4003b46d66d4 And so, you know, but like all of South America, the Andes, 4fd08a47-8afd-4f80-a008-f2df18b4b45d I mean especially the tropical parts, a45cd36a-7050-4152-a530-39c6ac26de71 like the glaciers are retreating 8b9429dc-4ca5-4769-a71e-cf2b6f2e98eb so quickly that anybody who lives even remotely near any of those places are like, 555c827c-1f26-4a30-9be1-5f07808addd9

32:01 this is insane. Like, it's crazy. f5a00433-2710-4455-bef2-36ee7bf38675 Like in Europe. Yeah. And I think it's it's much more clear in Europe ff04d322-3026-4dd9-8761-53a4ddf22e73 because there's ski resorts that, you know, 5d23daf9-8d5c-461d-885e-7da4896e07fb the chairlifts are like very clear markers and there's no more ski resorts, you know, f1ff83b2-05e2-43ff-8ee4-25f1c830a63b like they're just gone. They're just shutting down 9bc72165-cc85-429f-b993-ebbd78e3ade6 because there's no glacier to ski on. 06244b22-2901-42ea-8e97-125331761677 And it's just much more reference points to see it because obviously in 91a8096d-c2cb-4fad-b246-0b861b0650e9

32:31 the big remote mountain ranges, ae53d1ca-9ab7-4faf-a3ca-85b404204657 you can't tell and that that unless you've gone there a lot and the people who have, 912a1781-0ee8-46c7-a24d-97973e9bc34d you know, certainly say that. 4a1e007e-f228-4b4b-91ad-24313baba318 It's you're in an interesting position because you're a filmmaker in nature. 75c33266-449e-4885-9f3f-9867650419a7 And surely there's a pull to show how beautiful it is. b8c54ff1-97e6-453f-aff2-e575a82943ca But in showing how beautiful it is, b0f19e4c-d72d-44a2-8f25-f9cc4d78e1ff there might be a moral hazard that people watching your films think looks pretty good f3bd3464-2cf4-45b2-a4ce-e2ee2bac0593 to me. cdef4ca9-5341-44f4-93bf-60d557283c76 Yeah, well, I mean, the other side of that is just 9c2c3e8b-0e04-4903-a21b-341bc439a185 and I've always thought like people care for will take care of the of what they love. e927e85f-61a6-4596-9cc6-745feb48590c

33:07 And when you get people outside just on like 3bad9d48-39f8-4499-84f7-7115d817e9d7 the most kind of basic fundamental level is when you spend time in these wild places 41f2d59c-d0b5-42a2-ba65-bdfd60f18dc9 and you feel the effects of, you know, of what they do for you, 65a6eee1-7ae2-4ab8-929e-d71cd233ee82 at least what they do for me, b0b57902-5eaa-489e-905a-39ec9554622b but that you it will pique your interest in taking care of these places. 387928ac-c84f-4c39-8ceb-523dd37ec433 Um, how does that uplevel to, you know, thinking about climate change? 06bc3f45-ed2b-42fe-bad7-888d34ebd450

33:39 I mean, it's a start. I agree. 275765ff-5aee-4c58-bd03-9f4763207670 But also these films, you know, not to jump the gun, but the most recent film 3a16e849-aa73-49a5-afff-864ce2f070fe talks a little bit about that wildlife. 2990385e-6c09-4605-bf58-95c00641b0fc Yeah, Yeah. And it's about the. 6b4b817a-918c-4627-8574-e7fc6f8166cd Tompkins Yes, it's about Doug Tompkins and Chris Tompkins and Yvon Chouinard. 41483040-2552-47c6-8465-8f8cc5f9966f But do you know who those people are? Yeah. North Face Esprit. d196703d-ecd3-4f76-9adf-5f4e5927148d Yeah, I think so. Doug Tompkins founded the North Face and later on Esprit, 055fc65d-77df-43c5-a3ba-91b1e7f68e64

34:14 Yvon Chouinard founded Patagonia, 26edb01c-172c-4bb9-9539-ff5712b93155 and he recently gave the company away to fund Saving the planet. 7e33b80b-10e9-45a6-8210-e3a0580a96c2 Chris Tompkins was the founding CEO of Patagonia. a8f14bfb-6c1e-44c0-8356-f1dff6546531 But it's kind of this love story of Chris and Doug 811fc34b-4bd5-4226-9245-a41c016a8d50 and them spending 25 years of their lives building these national parks in in Chile. a9b5e2c7-6a26-4f01-9b51-d3f88eb02d9d And it's a you know, it's a story about. 35deafc2-fc75-40af-8c60-c03845203412

34:45 Conservation. It's a love story, 5b77e18d-2f4c-476c-81dc-9143e4bacff7 but it's also a story of kind of second chances f081989f-8f34-471c-8abf-7db3e3debf52 and living that life of deep intention. ff29b822-a8c5-4cc6-b503-6da88de41772 And we're going to share a little clip before we finish. 077fcb8b-147a-45ea-bc37-12a4f3355091 I wanted to say that 80% of sustainability is determined in the design phase, 2a344cc9-19d8-4e52-91ad-c604277037a9 which is the work of everyone here. So thank you for working with a higher purpose. b95cc573-f6b5-46ab-ba51-d53c9438ee05 Or maybe we should say maybe everyone should work a little harder on it and. 7ca00492-264e-4bbe-a0e5-7595e00268de I didn't say it. c8de469a-9c50-4a0b-a011-8fdd913209f1

35:15 Was a sin. Mean. 30b258d8-d1d9-42e7-a919-44376214776f With all respect to everybody. d14f5e10-32c7-4629-b1ab-b7caa0484f7d But c15afafa-25d2-4cf8-9c0e-e6995e09ebe4 there's b8f98e74-0920-434d-8fdf-1394e2725a06 you can't study you, Alex, for that long without starting to wonder about this 46c3dd63-35ed-42db-9ff0-91380ca79163 tension between being totally independent and being interdependent. 66c29b76-8ad1-49e7-8f99-183d57efa912 And you've gone on quite a journey. 9de51fa8-77dc-4ec0-8f5d-b860729ba164 I mean, you were a guy alone in 335f9c2a-8506-40b4-87e6-2761c7d30d5d a van who did these outrageous things without anyone knowing about it. 618dba56-d800-4064-beb2-b66052712f5b

35:50 And then you were the protagonist of an Oscar winning documentary. ae4afeae-d6e0-42c4-a1b2-5eecc8a454b3 You fell in love on screen and you became a father. 79cbfe3f-5e2a-426a-9aca-8875dd4ad809 Indeed. That makes it all sounds super dramatic. 79ccd85f-6475-4f12-bbef-2cec838be705 And when you when you live it, it's it's all a little more natural. 17eb10e1-1fac-4a57-b3af-b461272760fb I mean, the other the other way to frame that is that I spent a lot of years c0f1f434-6c36-4d71-b597-a7c7ed739326 focusing on being the best climber that I could be. be11d49c-4f26-401f-a8f4-ab9d7901aab2 But fully knowing I mean, the thing is, you know, 9876d1ff-d8a2-482b-9fcf-ed3f43f0b851 I've always been interdependent in that As a climber, 696d13c1-fe10-4d97-aabf-f460c1c4e3f9 you're always reliant upon partners and the climbing community. 90f495c1-f4f5-471e-a50c-7aca54e2ad00

36:21 So even when you're living by yourself in a van, 1be33131-2959-4e90-8f6e-d0b82851293a you're still climbing with people all the time. 672cfec4-6aef-43fe-9ac3-99db02cb672e We're still part of this web of climbing. 21b7d0f3-3025-4383-b8d1-30c790c6b46c And, you know, I mean, I was always desperately trying to find a girlfriend. 761d39b8-c51c-4b6d-b214-842deef508b8 I just didn't have any social skills. 7cc8da26-fe09-4f4c-8edd-1ce9eaf19b72 But I always knew that that eventually I wanted to have a family and, you know, d2bb3c56-7de6-4ebd-9a1e-27289f266faa sort of settle at some point. cd7c0bb7-20b1-4db8-a7c4-2ffd8951f675 But there were just certain things that I wanted to do first as a climber or, c649226d-e1cf-41ac-8907-fab6a053c533 you know, certain things that I wanted to achieve as a climber. 40b34f04-0df4-4752-811a-93803b36ab3f And so I don't know if it's a total contrast between interdependence and independence. b9a74781-79c9-4691-be2e-6f7be9d8b804 I just think that there's always been a little bit of both. Yeah. 0c5781ce-27a6-49a6-a8e9-f95404d37487

36:51 And I think thankfully for me, b905c72b-6828-4bf1-9adb-e3d432557bb1 they kind of came in the in the right order because I think I've done a lot of things. def55578-4154-4e0b-9306-0148e8ee5b66 I've done a lot of the really challenging things that I wanted to do as 479040ad-111f-4ae4-8049-fddb832e6972 a climber while I still had tons of independence in my life. 695982d0-af50-4204-b78b-02b68820db0d And now I have a wife and a daughter. 37ecd650-bc6e-4d09-8e98-f6d63bb0bd03 And I think that some of those things probably would be d6a74fe9-c01a-41c8-89c9-eabc4b0bcc0d a little bit harder to do now. a59081ae-0d81-4eb3-a17f-719f7ec054a6 Not to say it'd be impossible, 49416a0f-8ac2-4736-b600-37e373d2fdcc but but I'm glad that that I sort of made the made the choices I did. 4e4ee48f-bc7c-4434-b027-ca85fbce4576 Yeah. c7e02caf-4d27-49d2-9de2-6df2b188188c What are you laughing about over there? ffd8918a-6d99-4e23-a0eb-398c8a350f95 Oh, I just think it's a lot easier to free solo el cap before you get married 8ef8edec-7a98-470c-9be6-c0902bfc1b4d and have children. It's true. 495d9af4-7ebb-42c1-9fd4-8613359375ab

37:23 Yeah, well, I mean, I do, too, though. be84d0e1-d27a-43b4-be85-71aef3184bac And that's also why, you know, I think that a lot of people, ebb2326f-f1df-4e1e-a237-0eb827b84fbb when they watch the film free solo, they're like, that guy is kind of a douche. 6a648fd5-c824-4759-84fd-c8c9ebc28ada Like, he's kind of callous and he's like, not very nice to his girlfriend. e06e4ac1-a7ea-4741-8f12-89b11f80d742 And I'm like, Yeah, that's totally true, totally fair. 28202d16-2ea3-423e-af21-5043b70d27ac But to some extent that's an intentional choice that I'm prioritizing something that 245dc905-d853-4160-b829-c0c1873197db I've been dreaming of for ten years and working on for years. 9e147dd4-5863-4e4d-87f5-a053a559d428 And, you know, free sailing meant a ton to me . And then I met my now wife, Sony. b61858c9-4ed0-4489-9acc-247d356cc948 Like when we started making the film, I planted her. 65ce0f3d-3845-4fce-84ca-8f61dece7331 Yeah, Yeah, you wish, actually. Yeah. But so, you know, just by by sheer good luck. 5f093a73-230b-4c92-91e7-fd22fececcbb

37:57 I met her as we started filming. 08fa9602-4182-47a7-ab86-0dd0e3a09418 And so as the film unfolds, you know, 5ded48f1-ac6c-487b-a5c4-a3163155ac88 I've been dating this this wonderful woman for six months or a year, and you're like, 758895a8-6362-4819-b139-16c118749eb6 Yeah, she's great. But that doesn't outweigh this ten year goal of mine. 26467ef8-44cc-40d5-aa61-ada6ef8fa62e I'm kind of like, you know, I mean, cf077d1c-6eed-4c09-94ec-c7226055b3dd you could throw away a promising relationship if it means achieving eff620d5-863d-4fa3-9d06-30f448e33f16 a life goal, you know, even even if it is a great relationship, you know, 2c597067-6e73-482c-96f1-5661e17b7b5d thankfully and sort of with my wife's prompting, I didn't have to do that, ae7bb733-f3bf-4a2c-8cfc-63318043a408 you know, because I was always kind of like, well, just throw it away. 373b3c21-7ffc-459c-9d2f-f477bef476d5 And she's like, why not do both? And I was like, You know, that's a good question. 315ee132-4e9d-4889-8e33-981579c4f6d4 Why not do both? And, you know, thankfully, we we we did. 59c115c4-4999-449e-9911-ac85b365972c

38:30 You also met your wife on a film in a filmed situation. 63b09c4f-7ec6-44b0-b5d1-3d244068c56d Yeah. fdfa4ead-c20f-4288-bd61-0f65db54e8b8 Tell us about. f7789693-846a-4154-a65e-c992ce7a87c9 Chai. I was trying to make Meru. I'd actually made two versions of it. 54a56f18-41a9-4861-a027-69f7b19b86e7 They both sucked. 2a9f7ab7-793e-43ef-9733-33086ce22666 I thought they were both fine. fcceeaf8-03d8-41b4-a102-f621d121ae5b Fine. That's not like a ringing endorsement. 4aec2f39-d4bb-4d4c-95a2-a3f1aff478ad Yeah, exactly. I'm kind of obsessive and a perfectionist. Well, it just didn't. 53e499c1-0ddf-419c-8ed6-5f7e2d085c0f I knew it could be more than it was. d93028cb-4d2b-4666-8340-7b63b1be47b1 It wasn't quite where I wanted it to be because I had felt the potential of it. 7839f6bd-6c96-454d-a5b9-79b098707578

39:04 And I knew what I wanted to say. And it wasn't quite doing what I wanted it to say. 0c89e497-29e7-4c22-8efe-914f1412beab It wasn't so much about it wasn't doing what I wanted to say. 53ca8d70-deb5-4731-af5c-1828c64cb739 It wasn't hitting people with the way I wanted people to feel. 6a8a06c9-e859-447a-92c2-2d0d4ffc062b And that's a lot of how I I'm inspired by films is if I have a story where I know how d2e47084-9c25-42de-ae9b-d7c7f0a4f040 I want people to feel because I feel it and I want to translate that feeling. 6d23041a-b4df-4764-86b5-cdf4b521a234 That's a lot about how I pick films and think about films. 831d755a-aafd-42ee-a3db-2dde812c541d But I met Chai and she was already a very well-established filmmaker. 9fceb9cc-5237-4717-8a6e-5c14e68d24f3

39:39 She made her first film when she was 22. 07ba9ab3-c871-4072-8a24-177979fcf7b8 She submitted it to Tribeca, won Best documentary at Tribeca when she was 22, 3258e66a-c939-4035-9895-69fda3493970 and then went on to make a lot of other pretty incredible kind of more socioeconomic ff87f7a7-7ba1-460c-8dca-1b723deb4956 films. 523003d3-b478-4836-b06f-a64f434689fa But she c17be35f-6b1a-4fbe-996c-4dfa38bf9d2a decided I asked her if she would take a look at the film. a89f5e4c-5d82-4cf5-9a11-b76b11c5ef32 As a classic first date kind of line, like, Will you check out my film? Yeah. b47c500a-e906-418c-a6ac-9648701fcb62

40:11 It looks better in the dark. 8012b016-40f3-40bc-9049-5affc9083c3d Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Let me turn that off. b9520ae0-45c9-4df8-aeef-dd972633029c Actually, it was. Really funny because she didn't respond for three months 4a096a0e-c213-4ba5-8f57-32cb99d5ebc7 because she was in Africa making a film and I just assumed she totally blown me off. 8f64629f-0e47-4d55-b552-b74aff3c06a1 Yeah, but she did watch the film and classic Chai. 37504d6c-4d87-459b-9bdd-0ad0b5e9e081 If you ever meet her, you'll understand. 69ce1fc2-1ac0-4027-8333-3e813572da05 But she, um, called me and there was no kind of like, Hey, how are you doing? bba0dc36-6c9b-4933-9134-597356d6a030

40:42 How's it going? It was like I picked up the phone and she said, Jimmy, I'm like, 3dfae70e-2358-444a-9313-7ebf9b421855 Yeah. She's like, It's chai. And I was like, Hey, how's it going? She's. 6dc9c3c3-a97e-4083-9f33-31ae532f8c27 She didn't respond to anything. She just said , What do you want to do with this film? 03b4e0d8-8c39-4713-b802-b575e63bd29b And I was like, Well, I mean, I would like to make it into a, you know, anyway. abd17290-e6eb-41a9-8e86-be7b803c5533 Like, I just want it to not suck. And she's like, I got you. 40aea45a-bf9a-40a0-a955-83758c864fcb Yeah. b3cbefa2-ab75-4871-a078-0d80554651ac I'm just trying to get a second date. b1b5eb02-4c79-43fb-88aa-1a0b30980a50 Chai Yeah, yeah, pretty much. 2145d49b-951d-46ce-9465-0152634f917d And then how did she change it? 965fe767-8b7f-424d-80fe-9a57655461c9 How does her sensibility and maybe her femininity affect a story like Meru? 3344def0-6a64-4bed-a8d2-7c5f6af8edd4

41:14 Well, first of all, she doesn't she's not interested in climbing whatsoever, 280b5f99-be13-4214-8e7c-560ef515c7ca which is. 13cefdd0-0653-4294-8f48-fac40054e689 Invaluable because that helps it be more interesting to those of us who don't know 20c6e119-fe44-4555-adaa-9fab1f8d6e00 that much about climbing. I know if. 19dcffe2-ed3f-492c-8ba7-6702d055e059 I had made the phone free solo, it just would have been uncut. bcc65bc4-bdbe-45da-b3ae-f387738b60c4 Three hours free soloing. Okay. And like, this is sick. a39f4616-927e-4bf2-9dd8-60575566f401 But that's a movie I really want to see. Exactly. Oh, people have asked for it. 9ed8bf89-a5a0-4ae0-9da3-ca28da0731ac They're like, You all shot the whole thing, right? 26791414-35c0-47d8-a284-5e6c404c2ae7 Can't you just cut the whole climb together? 2804dfe1-7601-4f40-a3bf-36177a6f6611 All the climbers are like, we want to see him climb every single pitch. 6262a6d4-1594-460f-b9cb-54c8e7c8068f

41:46 But how many hours would that be? a61839f6-b1e4-49eb-8da6-3be79faccc6a It's almost four. It's like 356 or something. d97bb334-14b3-4b75-bbcc-1fbb514d6272 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 873ebbac-89dd-45cf-8d63-738c4fcee455 It's like a. 2d993aad-9d97-452d-a3f7-a21a5fbefe8c Crazy. We could almost we could almost do it. 63c97354-d21b-4844-a7f4-e3b1d0215846 But yeah, I mean, she was much more interested in the relationships 6db010db-c2be-4086-ad41-77b2d20429b1 and other parts of the story, but I was very clear that I knew what that film was. 46ae2410-51d4-46ab-b064-082d2dad3fd8 I wanted it to be. I wanted to be about friendship and mentorship, loyalty and, um, cefa20b3-7006-4a7c-a596-3dec436eeb7e and, but I couldn't quite figure out how to get there. 3a1c5ef9-53a1-4647-a830-681a7643708e

42:17 And she immediately came in and said, Well, 1047d2c3-5b92-483f-8146-247ae5dece64 you're way too close to everybody in the film. d7204ac2-8e5d-4577-a8d1-de64313795cd In fact, you're in the film, e47f794b-589e-4f4b-bc2c-505c4a83c69b so you have no objectivity and you guys are just having bro talk like. ee698ccc-86dc-416e-b06c-e0a287d1c1f1 And so she went and re-interviewed everybody. She did, yeah. d07ea552-81e9-41a4-94a3-cc8fe92376cc And I will say that most of the interviews from Jon Krakauer I did, 28fac03f-39d1-4d5f-bf99-26296cc2ed3a but all the other ones with Conrad and myself and Renan, b66b536e-465e-437e-83a1-840ad11701fe she she came in and and she like Alex said, she's definitely 85df28d7-c561-4eb2-a6ac-879eed5897d4

42:50 in the edit way more like our division of labor is kind of like usually it's like 80% 3ed07bbd-bcdf-43ca-b02a-91b703b5376e of production, physical production. I do. aaa246f5-90b9-4f1b-8ecc-6b5743ae9955 And she'll do like 20% , although her 20% is usually. 3d822bed-01ad-46bb-ad29-5aee3fa33b38 Usually makes the final cut. d5facf6e-a898-4b96-ba2e-102991d9fd9f That gets used. Yeah. 559c4575-ca31-4e1d-aa46-d223f4ba9b59 And then she does like 80% of of the post and edit Well you. e3970243-202b-40ab-bf34-aaa7ca2c20d0

43:21 Know it's interesting. I write books and if if I took me all day to write a paragraph 32ad0b10-34ff-4a03-b580-5634bb9fc249 and then my husband reads it down the line and says, I think you should cut this. cd68ac6d-f588-405b-b07f-e78c09376668 It's like, Oh God, you don't know what went into that. c703442d-584e-48c3-bd16-3002c6334d73 And it must be an ex that for you. Like you don't. dc2a0f1f-1517-4275-a1e5-478ca31c7422 I was hanging under a thing and I had fish out my camera. d60214cf-9797-4e1e-b2f0-e5a133e4eb98 With the film free solo. We spent 8777766e-91d8-4dcd-93cf-85663e7975c6 a month in Morocco doing this crazy thing where my partner and 9abc2bb3-0123-493f-aade-29e152bf39e2 I climb these crazy walls and I sold this crazy thing. 9c478a5f-6971-4c9d-8311-8a9b99033bfe It all had never been done before. It's basically a month of hard labor. 59228948-0815-48a6-8338-5e70a3f92e4f And then in the film it's what, like 60s of B-roll? d5f2517d-81a1-418e-a727-3feb3664bd0f Basically, Like while they're doing interviews, 282aabdc-c092-4e5f-af14-22aec67a3be7

43:52 they just show some kind of scenic shots of like, people climbing on Brown Rock. 8e3d0758-fc1a-4960-99b3-9200fe8ba066 It's like it doesn't even show that it's Morocco. 9d0a79df-c7f8-458c-9b65-83b3ed60e7e7 And we were like, we all had the shits for a month. 460c37e2-b600-4e40-9237-57c5da3b1008 Like, you know, it's like bad water. a535bb58-81fe-4e01-b50f-ed61b75f2fa0 You're sort of like we were like, we were laboring, We were toiling. It was so hard. 5da21a80-2a8d-4985-a835-86effd9eb7d2 18 hour days back to back to back. 25045dce-4a87-4cb6-88fd-606497f69e8c Yeah. 0ddf8b66-97c4-4b94-ab45-b1bab81005f5 It's like literally I was like, well. 973c05ad-f149-44ea-8650-d041c14263e0 I was like, yeah, it doesn't make the movie. We're like, Come on. bd418304-1db1-43fe-868a-b8bd958bf0c5 Like, what does it take? We're like cutting edge climbing. Never been done. 5fe4bc8e-34b8-4872-bad7-b3143efba87f Everybody, like, funny you bring that up 3debeb75-6fd0-414b-be99-57a88c637133 because I've never had more pushback from my crew on something getting cut. Yeah. 1d16c3de-734e-4f68-8a31-fc2bc341e396 Than that. Yeah. Because we all work. 8228b631-2451-4e0f-ae39-a71450dc3f0e

44:22 So freaking hard. 9d321260-94ab-4f12-a879-27fd11bbdb6c Like they were like Morocco is like 60s in the movie. 664abd04-f88d-4ca9-ba9d-683fa6701386 And I'm like, Don't even talk to me about it. Talk to Chai. Talk to Chai. 4b0c3718-5778-4835-b205-b824b6b74cb3 Yeah. It's like, the hardest we've all worked. bcab2683-8a78-4154-9e46-b8e668eaaab0 And you're like, If this isn't good enough for a movie, then what is? 11f054e8-c0f1-4b42-8142-6003c66346ad You're like, Come on. Right. This is some of, like, the. 144136af-a96f-4a90-843d-99cfa95052b3 Satisfying, well, the love story. b00c9376-6e11-451b-a991-51867409ca2d And I still remember it because the love story Chai and I are obviously parents, d17ed463-e2ff-4713-aaa7-b01b9a266b36 kids and I was off on some shoot. 40c91103-8d19-4fa1-bd62-634f941176ae And, you know, they're usually very hurried conversations on 509be27f-1238-412b-af69-eb0e23b7bba8

44:54 a sat phone where it's like James has been misbehaving. 6111c7c6-883a-4726-9d50-2f95f4c36f76 I had to take Marina to the hospital and and, you know, 6f656715-6b09-4288-bc0e-07a2f8593e54 I'm probably in Alaska or something being like And then right before she hangs up, 87ff6907-0b29-4713-9ab6-089025c848b5 she says, Oh, and by the way, 5d27bcd6-e4e4-49e1-8f86-afc7dac0b431 I turned three solo into a love story and then hung up like, 186876c2-2bc3-4e04-a3ef-02895eb54a0b what did you what was that last part? Hello, hello, Hello. Connection's not good bye. faff469b-3738-4094-bab8-c96559361ade No, she literally hung up. She's like, Oh, and by the way, d85f9cd5-00f0-4313-9559-e54195ec41ec I turned free solo into a love story and and then hung up and I was like, Yeah, e2dff30d-050b-4aec-8222-a0b145ea7a26

45:27 I was. I remember being like, What was the last part? Being like, Oh, yeah. 59d80743-658f-4af0-a2ac-47375bb996f9 And it won the Oscar. 3dd37c4c-bfe9-498f-af8d-ae140cbcbc72 It did? Yeah. f46d53d9-5084-468c-be00-ab69f86eaa94 Yeah. e712bb04-0284-4c0f-bf13-cd57b80c39f8 Thank goodness they. They cut the Morocco scene. 4733e89c-9833-4c8f-a12c-40a6a8f25a7c Yeah. Thank goodness. 78dafb36-ba93-4b48-9e65-62e1d457c9fb Yeah, Yeah. d6848ddf-6d9a-4ae1-b509-708647231a7e Before we go, I wanted to take a minute and show a little clip from your new movie, 6c286721-2165-4a75-975c-3dceb3bc0931 as promised. Do you want to set it up? Yeah. 483a3baf-60b6-4c1d-ba32-857346fa4c37 So this is a film. We've actually started filming it while we were filming Free solo, fc03f1cd-7ec3-4ac1-8082-50bd524a7cfb

46:01 so we've been working on it for quite some time. 6552f53a-29e6-484f-a8ef-60ca96943993 We make films concurrently, but again, yes, 79fb274e-60de-4efc-8653-aa9c1b19d474 this is a film that kind of touches on 77aff351-e4b4-4560-a52c-00c1c66c803a the story of Doug Tompkins and Chris Tompkins and Ron Shannon, b8d04277-ec22-4eed-86b5-2830306db4bc who were huge inspirations for me as I came up. f609c6ee-b667-48e4-8163-446b6667c8e6 They were icons in the outdoor world, but they were pioneers as climbers, d4e76292-0492-4dbd-8cbe-d1e1c3ebc820 but then pioneers as entrepreneurs and then pioneers as conservationist. e5ce38ac-d971-465e-8af3-7c4ffcb2f278 But it is a big fat love story and it's you'll see. 1717e8a1-2a26-40d5-9a9e-6aef2afad4ce

46:31 Yay for love stories. Let's roll it. de9a200c-47ab-42d2-9da3-01b09f5696c9 In the very beginning, Doug and I were living in the middle of this Paradise, 1e4345ca-2506-4126-bca2-101cd5d79326 and we said it would be incredible to save this place. Just save it. 9a8346d0-6975-464f-b86b-8d00b2ab00e5 Doug and then. 2b16b711-d595-435d-8486-4526b767a7c2 Chris, you would see them together and it was like teenage kids. cb510b9f-d6dc-47bf-8e0d-7620e5c2c24e He was very charming. I thought. 2e030187-3233-4b3d-aa63-04b2bccadaf7 That's the man I was supposed to marry. It was scandalous. 33835e03-6b4f-453d-b7e0-6a13391ee33a These were the original dirtbag climbers and surfers and skiers who go on to create e50a9002-417e-4db5-91e7-4f3c2146a90a

47:05 the outdoor clothing business as we know it. 96c79da0-e9b0-4ca2-8a46-76760866d0d4 And then there was the change. b3996d09-c939-4b14-bc66-f81e406a18c9 On any scorecard. Nature is losing. 10d389fd-d309-470f-8b80-0b587ddc1727 They saw nature being destroyed. And if we destroy nature, we destroy ourselves. 83e54273-9a6b-47ad-9184-3d85a7dc06b1 The ultimate do it yourself approach to saving the earth. Buying it. f7220a37-893c-4c58-af0d-30c36af9f06a We started to realize it was possible to create a national park with 589b601e-cc43-41b1-91b7-2888ff0ddf1a the idea that we would donate it back to the country. f6702bbf-2a50-4df9-99b9-558c0015ffdd And they're going, Come on. Nobody does that. e2e1e2fa-f86d-41d4-8579-6c3823b07e6f

47:39 I desire to preserve this place. 44c5a7b8-0272-42ce-b894-2f93a3785a33 I think that is as strong a bond as any two people can have. f69cefa1-ceef-4a63-976f-42f2f30607a9 And then the worst thing that could happen to me happened. a02aa357-3bb1-4db2-87e6-775615bca10b Douglas Tompkins died Tuesday in an accident in Chile. cd17f00e-88b4-4fc2-b7f7-55fb6417b886 I was on my knees. d78dbb02-4f8b-4caa-9e95-4713065ac72d This audacious vision of Doug's. 14505284-4345-44f8-8be8-58cb8b2d3d7e That was like a life raft for me. We need to finish up these parks. It's now or never. 2120ea20-46fa-4292-a72e-2d441939f130

48:17 It was so unlikely that you could pull that off. 2d26a554-e5f9-470a-95d2-a4979c10f4ae She became more and more fierce. 4dce28dc-7ca9-4664-b56b-304d34028ba5 I ask myself, how can I come this far without you? But then I remembered. 4ffd3500-38cd-4f66-a983-2d939718b93f You've been here all along. Look, look, look, look, look. 4fc4ac56-b8d8-4793-9bb1-92968d12402d Doug would be so happy. b65e44f2-e82e-41ac-bfd7-09c2eac87d2d They define an entire way of life. b054750a-3c46-4da7-8593-57048650caf8 Look at this. Incredible wildness as far as you can see. 865c79bb-2cf8-4453-90d2-f7058d360370

48:49 Before I died. I wanted this life. 5bd812e6-1c3a-4a90-ae1b-c366a0f91317 Something wild. cfd06e72-1a3c-42b5-b22c-a818e0109f9e I want to thank you guys for designing things carefully and with purpose 96396db9-3d5f-4ba6-ad38-6b4c65ac0165 and sustainability in mind. I want to thank you guys for being models of preparation 7625b278-feba-4824-8b95-47fb668f308b

49:21 and attention to detail and ambition and love. Thanks for having us. 621f8a9f-1afd-4b23-9ab4-e485eb6f49e3 Thank you. Thank you, guys.